Canna

You know, i might be wrong, all day long on central russian tv canel they are showing the images of Second World War wher fashists are merdering civil peopel and a lot of refugees are sufering in temper camps, womens are crying under the bodies of ther cildren, husbends, brothers ectr... wich are merderd ofter bob atacs of fashists luftwaffe.

I`ve seen it before, in my cildehood,,,,, when i was plaing with my naebormights.... The same thing has happend and are hapening now in Chechnya.... Instade of Souetics are Chechens instade of Fashists are russian fediral trups.....

If you`ll place two screens on one of wich you`ll put the imagis of fashists crimes in USSR during 1941 - 1945 and on the other one, the cronology of what was hapening in Chechen Republic since 1993 till now, you wont finde much diferences.......

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Mister

This world is cruel and savage. People only pretend to be human and kind (especialy when they are being watched by others, when they are in public, in plain view), if you let them to be themselves, give them freedom to do what they really want, they will start torturing , raping , and killing everybody: women, kids, those that weak and old, nothing matters.
This war gaive russians such freedom. Freedom to be themselves, almost no limitations. Nobody was watching them, media coverage wasn' allowed.
I don't know how else to explain it.
And second thing I don't know how to explain is why no body cares. People like watching movies of war that was 50-60 years ago and condemn what hapened then, but don't care to do anything about same horors that hapens today.
Basicaly, humans are animals. Not accidentualy when antropologist wants to understand something about human behavior they study monkeys and other animals. And then all of the suden things start making sense.

naqarmoza

Canna - I do agree with you that the horors of WWII have tremendous similiarites with the current Chechen Wars. But I would also like to add, that the wars in general are alike all over the places at different times. No war is a pleasant sunny Sunday walk. It's just what it is. As Mister put it, we do have that beastal nature in us inheriantly, that if it's not cultivated can reach the extreme heights of unhumanity. But unhumanity is not the same is being animal, because animals are beaing what they meant to be, but the humans are not. Therefore we are worse than them.

The difference of our times are also shown the degradation in the ethics of war. If before the Japanese soldiers had to study literature and poetry and other humanites in order to perfect their humanity before they engaged in the combatments, or let's look at the the English soldiers in WWI, they all were Gentelmen of highest societal ranks with the excellent manners. Today the majority of the forces around the wrold are not finely tuned in order to fit into the hard task, most of them have no morale, some of the drugged up, the other come from the lowest social classes, some of them criminals. Or "Dedovshina"? If we also add to that the realities of today's urban warfare - than we are in total degradation. The falling bombs that kill innocent civilians - is a murder and should not be considered as a standart means of urban warfare.

Back to Chechnya the Mainstream Media. Of course, in the recent Chechen Wars, we haven't lost 20 million people as the Russians did during the WWII. And of course as a result of the Chechen Wars we are not a part of the UN Security Council as Russia is got to be after the WWII. But we can create our own state of mind where each of us individually will bring something into the welfare of our nation. When the Japanese were nuked by the Americans in Hiroshima and Nigasaki, what did they do? They became stronger and more powerful nation. And we can do that, Dal mukh lah.

Meanwhile let Russia remember their past heroes while the present bring nothing but shame.

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Голосуем!

Canna

You`r right!!! But if we do compear hou many people were kild in USSR during the WWII and hou many people wos living there and the same comperasment with Chechnya......

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Akbara

There is a child's verse,which is very simple but contain the main... " Ask me please 1ce more - do u need war? I'll say 1ce more- NO WAR!"

Genossin

But -if i may ask you- what do you think of the persecution of the russians living in Chechnya and the attack on Dagestan? Wasn't there a necessity to stop all these things?
And what's better for you: depending on Russia or being independent, but with a wahhabistic regime?
Of course i condemn the faults and crimes of the russian army, but i also don't see there any alternative.

personally i wouldn't compare the war in chechnya with Hitler's attac on the Soviet Union, the political and military reasons were another... just the crimes are in some way similiar.

terracota

Genossin, I don't think there are geopolitical similarities between WWII and the two Chechnya wars. What Canna probably meant, was that the human suffering during wars is always similar, no matter where or when the wars are happening.

In terms of WWII, I think, you've got to admit, that a lot of casualties on the Russian side could have been prevented, if not for the cleansing of the top military brass by Stalin in the 30s. You probably know better than I do what was happening during the first 6 months since June 22 - retreat, retreat, retreat. Where was Tukhachevski? Dead. Where were the talented military commanders? Dead or rotting in the Gulags. You probably remember what Zhukov said: "Why waist machinery, tanks and equipment on the minefields - send the soldiers in first."

I also cannot agree that the Chechen wars were a foregone conclusion. The situation was allowed to deteriorate by the Kremlin both times, with malice or not. All of that could have been prevented, if someone on both sides had the balls (pardon, moderators) to stop the criminal gangs before escalating the situation to full-out war.

Russians did not have it easy in Chechnya in 1991-1993, I have no argument with you there. But so did many Chechens, who had to leave just as well. There was no protection for the ordinary citizens, period. If Chechens were somehow protected by their clan system (there would have been some repercussions), Russians had no such protection, hence we have what we have. But no one had it easy in the former USSR during that time, you know that better than I do - just look at the crime stats in Russia itself.

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Audaces Fortuna Iuvat

Шо такое? Шо такое? .....Опять жуб швиштяшчий вышибли.....

Genossin

ok, that's possible.

It was always the nature of Russia to waste it's citizen's lives, you're right.
But we've still won WWII on Russia's and other republic's side